What is a hipster?

[benner]

[This topic has evolved from an ongoing joke with Brittanie, a contestant on UB2]

Hmm. What is a hipster? There seem to be two different ideas of ther word.

First: I kind of consider the term 'hipster' to be self-effacing, or even ironic [brittanie knows all about this too, ;)]in this case.

If we look at the etymology of the word 'hip,' it stems from the term 'hep' - which holds the same meaning as hip = "characterized by a keen informed awareness of or involvement in the newest developments or styles" [hep cat = hipster]

I think the term has become negative among people who consider themselves 'hip' or innovative - the idea that if you call something hip then its not longer hip - so in this sense someone who considers themselves to hip would use the term "hipster" to mean something like, for a lack of a better synonymn, "poser" or someone who picks up on a style that has been deemed "hip" but is no longer hip among innovative peoples.

[Yes, I know what my explanation says about myself]

Irony is often a source of things that are hip. For example things once considered "nerdy," like black, thick rimmed glasses are hip. Or activities considered lame, like working at the library or teaching sunday school, are hip.

Second: Hipster simply means what it means, someone who is hip - usually the general public who consider themselves on par with 80% of the population.

[benner]

see also, the Hipster Handbook = http://www.hipsterhandbook.com/

i think this was made by some hipsters at http://www.freewilliamsburg.com, considering williamsburg is like Hipster disney world

[george]

I used to love the way allen ginsberg used the term "Angel-headed hipsters" in Howl. I still do.

But at one point in High school (about 6 years ago), my buddy Graham bemoaned the use of the word hipster. I looked into it and I think I remember it haveing roots in the jazz culture of the 1950s, back when all the jazz guys wore the same shoes and suits and such.

Hipster today is definitely negative. It is pretty much tantamount to "alternative" 10 years ago just with tighter pants.

[george]

the same guy made both of those things, i thought?

[benner]

I think you are correct, geo.

by the way. The ultimate act of hipster iconography is getting a talented, up-and-coming artist to paint your likeness.

[benner]

I don't think of myself as a "hipster". Probably because to me the word has a negative connotation. Rarely do I see it used as anything but a negative term. Like, "Oh, that place is for hipsters."

Why are nerdy or formerly lame things hip? I don't get that part.

Hipster is a label searching for a definition, because no one identifies as a hipster, as opposed to something like punk.

(Wait, are you saying 80% of the population are hipsters!?!?? That's CRAZY!)

"the idea that if you call something hip then its not longer hip".
1. No one actually uses the term "hip".
2. I don't think people's likes and dislikes are that shallow.

Wikipedia says, "Modern hipsters are those devoted to ironic retro fashions, independent music and film, alternative comics, and other forms of expression outside the mainstream. They are often associated with indie culture."

Even this is ridiculous. Who would say they prefer Hollywood Blockbusters, Top 40, and mass media? So you are either mainstream or "hip"? I'm "hip" for having good taste? Weird call.

[benner]

I don't think of myself as a "hipster". Probably because to me the word has a negative connotation.

I think hipster has become a genre, like "punk" and "hippy". Rarely do I see it used as anything but a negative term. Like, "Oh, that place is for hipsters."

I would have to disagree with you on this one, i think that hipster is not genre specific - as there are different trends within different genres. Though, I do think that "hipster" is more commonly used to describe people that are into independent [the term independent/indie is also problematic as a genre due to its inclusiveness] music/film, NPR etc.

Why are nerdy or formerly lame things hip? I don't get that part.

nerdy things made cool - this is irony. well explained in the wikipedia definition you pulled

I feel like hipster is a label searching for a definition, because no one identifies as a hipster, as opposed to something like punk.

Wait, are you saying 80% of the population are hipsters!?!?? That's CRAZY!

i meant to say that 80 percent of the population would use the term hipster indifferently [see: Second]

Also, I think you are wrong about why people don't like the term: "the idea that if you call something hip then its not longer hip". 1. No one actually uses the term "hip". 2. I don't think people's likes and dislikes are that shallow.

of course people don't use the term 'hip,' but people surely use other words that inherently hold the same essence as the word 'hip.

To think that peoples' interests aren't that shallow is pretty naive. People want to be cool, they are going to be interested in what is cool just because its cool[/quote]

Wikipedia says, "Modern hipsters are those devoted to ironic retro fashions, independent music and film, alternative comics, and other forms of expression outside the mainstream. They are often associated with indie culture."

Even this is ridiculous. Who would say they prefer Hollywood Blockbusters, Top 40, and mass media? So you are either mainstream or "hip"? I'm "hip" for having good taste? Weird call.

[benner]

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly
connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat
up smoking in the supernatural darkness of
cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities
contemplating jazz...

man. If only that is what I still thought of when I heard the term "hipster."

Does anybody know where I can get a good "Companion to Ginsberg" type book that will explain this poem better? I mean, does anyone know of one. I can probably track it down on my own just fine.

[benner]

Thus begins the Hipster Trials. :)

The wikipedia article did clear a few things up for me. And I read that after I wrote most of what I posted.

I believe that the concept of "The Hipster" has been resurrected as a means to identify, catalog, and understand what some see as yet another cultural trend (i.e. punk, yuppie, hippy, etc) but is in fact a fundamental cultural change.

There is no hipster.

It all comes back, naturally, to the internet. Culture became uniform because media was consolidated. There were a limited number of radio and television stations, a limited number of newspapers, and a limited number of book publishers. When the term hipster first arose, it was used to describe young people who were interested in alternatives to mainstream culture.

Now, we see the term being used again. And it's being applied to people who are interested in alternatives to mainstream culture. At least, that is what it looks like. What we're actually seeing however is not an interest in alternatives to mainstream culture, but the disintegration of what mainstream culture is.

There is still television being broadcast out for free. But the numbers, especially among young people, are dwindling. There is still radio, newspapers, and book publishers, but again, the numbers are all dwindling. And it's not just that people aren't watching, listening, and reading. It's that people are becoming more choosey, and more media savvy, and no longer have a need for "mainstream" culture.

You don't have to be know anyone to know about "indie culture". While it was all word of mouth, it's now being broadcast online and is as easy to get to as CNN.com. People who would never be called "hipster" are doing hipster things. Indie films, music, NPR, etc are no longer "hip". They are just normal things. Watching Ultimate Blogger is as easy (actually easier!) as watching Survivor.

There is no longer a clear break between what is indie and what is mainstream. Mainstream co-opts indie, indie is influenced by mainstream, mainstream breaks into so many shows on so many channels that television is actually getting interesting again. Pop culture is dying. The idea of the majority of the people all listing to the same music, watching the same films, and reading the same things is an idea that has already passed by.

Everyone is a hipster.

Everyone listens to music that other people haven't heard, because it's easier to find and get music. What is "cool" is defined by who you are hanging out with. Look at people's playlists these days! My top artists on last.fm are YACHT, DJ Jazzy Jeff, Mase, Serge Gainsbourg, DJ Spooky, Thanksgiving, Prefuse 73, 50 Cent, The Darkness, and Bobby Birdman. Do I listen to DJ Jazzy Jeff or Serge Gainsbourg because they are "ironic"?

People say "hipsters" are "ironic" because they can't grasp the concept of people acting on their own, without being bound by what someone or some genre says is "cool" or "correct". It's 2006. We're done with your antiquated notions of indie and mainstream. It's all the same. There is really good stuff on NBC. There is really stuff being made by my friends. There is nothing ironic about appreciating quality.

There is no hipster because everyone is a hipster.

Mainstream culture is fracturing and finding out how to fit the niche interests of the world. If you read about media and business this is what everyone is talking about. And it's all because we all have access to the same distribution platform. We're just about there. Music, news, movies and with Amazon, even books, will come from the same place. And instead of choosing a bestseller, we're going to see someone we respect online recommend a book, album, or movie, and we're going to buy it. And then, when we want to talk about that, we'll find the forum where other people are discussing it. It will be moms, businesswomen, kids, and students who all stumbled upon the thing in different ways.

[benner]

sorry to break things up a bit, but could someone explain what a "scenester" is?

[benner]

A scenester is someone involved in a particular music scene, often letting the music they listen to determine the people they associate with, the clothes they wear and their overall attitude. Scenesters take cues from others like them to see what is up and coming musically, whether it be Indie rock, Hardcore, Punk or Emo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scenester

http://www.google.com/search?client=saf ... 8&oe=UTF-8

[benner]

And what about irony? I swear to god I'm going to throw up the next time I hear someone use that word. Back when I was a kid in English class, I remember that term having a very, very specific meaning with regards to literature and art. Now, even Wikipedia's definition seems to be a catch-all. "Irony is something unexpected." That's the broadest definition of any word I've ever read.

In the past few years (since Sept. 11) there has been so much ballyhoo about irony and how it's "so over". The magazine The Believer was lanched a few years ago under the banner that irony was passe.

And there's this article, which attempts to say that irony and presonal reflection are mutually exclusive.

Here's more.

Guess what — irony will never be passe, just like humor will never be passe, because irony is a sense of humor that allows us to look at the ridiculousness of our own lives. Now that we have a goddamn retard in the White House and the economy is reaching Depression-era instability, where the top headline in the nightly news is the fact that two movie stars are getting divorced — it's f-ing ridiculous, and for me, irony is the only thing that keeps me sane because then I know I'm not the only one who thinks everyone else is crazy.

The idea that irony=hipster=irony, though, is wack. They do go hand in hand, but there are many things in this world that are ironic without being hip.

(Please don't rail me about my political beliefs — this is just to illustrate a point and not to incite a reb/blue riot.)

[benner]

Lately it's been very hipster to use 'ironic' incorrectly. It's tragically ironic to me that people are unknowingly watering down the concept of irony while trying to use the word stylishly.

Thanks for making me feel not crazy Brittanie.

[benner]

EXACTLY

[benner]

to respond to most of what mikey has said, yes - media, mediums rather have increased and the ability to seek out information, whether that info is video, music, text or whatever - takes seconds. The disperal of information is not the only element of our society that has emerged from the coccoon of modern thinking. American culture in general is pluralistic, infinite, indecisive -

in addition, to say that mainstream culture is being destroyed by the infinite number of choices is totally off. It is the complete opposite - Mainstream culture has penetrated all of these different mediums, whether its iPods/podcasting, blogs, etc. i think the TV Show Lost is case and point. All of these things perpetuate the popularity of that TV show. Though, this has also made it possible for more ideas to be shared - ie UB2.

I agree with both what Mikey and Brittanie have said about the overuse of the word "irony" or "ironic" - but irony is product of the multiplicty of reactions and thinking, essentially "irony" is just as wikipedia has defined it, "something that is unexpected," though in addition it is also a literary technique and in other cases something more specific, but inherently it is "unexpected," whether funny or tragic.

I think the point that I was trying to make is that "hipsters" [here used to describe the people that appropriate ideas, style, culture from trend-setter-types] find humor in the irony of, for example, wearing leg warmers or wearing t-shirts with howling wolves on them.

A lot of this is disjointed, but I feel confident enough to post this.